Thank god.. I'd forgotten how much I really really hate the Brushed Metal look.. you'd *think* Apple would learn from the past and make the interface a little les overbearing!

[JMO!]

Thank god.. I'd forgotten how much I WANT SHAPESHIFTER ALREADY! BASTARDS!

You bastards.. release a beta now. Who cares about themes, you know the app works! I'll make my own damn theme!

Wow you 3 suck...

>Wow you 3 suck...

>Posted by Chris McElligott at April 29, 2005 06:04 PM

are you talkin' to the developers.. or are you talking to *us*?

cuz if you're talkin' to us.. "talk is cheap, steel shuts it up."

I'm a beta tester for SS, my comment was immature but the 3 above it were plain stupid. ShapeShifter will be done when its done...

Thanks for this amazing Job. Shapshifter is really good.

Thanks a lot :)

Now, if only ShapeShifter could return the look of Mail.app back to how it was in Panther... I miss the drawer being collapsable and able to be on the right hand side!

I'm looking forward to getting my Mac back into its Aluminum Alloy ShapeShifter theme, but I can wait until the product's actually ready unlike some others that seem addicted to themes like they were heroin, LOL. Keep up the great work!

this is why alcohol and the Internet don't mix

/waiting patiently unlike others

We're only "addicted" to themes because Apple doesn't seem to recognize that Aqua is the ugliest UI ever presented to the public. Well, okay. Maybe that's stretching it. Third ugliest. Windows' UI has always topped the list, followed by Novell.

The main thing is that, actually, there are at least 3 different "Aqua" : metal, normal, plastic... I'd enjoy to have an haxie or a theme replacing every Metal app, with Plastic.. I think it's aqua-friendlier !

I agree, Clems, that Apple really needs to come up with a consistent GUI for ALL their programs. It's insane how Mail.app and iTunes and Disk Utility all have different GUI looks to them. It's like they just can't make up their mines. Personally, I like the new color scheme in Mail.app (but wish they had kept the mailboxes on a drawer that could be on either side). If they went to that look as a consistent look, I think I'd be happy. Or even the brushed metal -- I know alot of people hate it, but I personally think it's grown on me.

I, for one, like the newer appearance of Mail.app. It's properly paned out, like it should be. The drawer added another layer to the OS' inconsistency (Metal, plastic, glass, metal with drawers, plastic with drawers, glass with drawers), never quite looked *right* to me, added more stuff for poor RealBasic programmers to cram into their applications, and finally took up too much screen real-estate, especially for those of us who primarily use a resolution-locked machine (iBook G4, in my case) set to 1024x0768.

Well, doesn't the new appearance of Mail.app just bring more inconsistency? The 'drawer' look is still going to be on a lot of apps and Mail.app doesn't fit the GUI of any other programs really. And for those of us with dual screens (a 17" CRT and a 23" Cinema HD), having the flexability of the drawer being on either side was nice. Besides, with the drawer being turned into a sidebar, your gain of screen real estate is more an illusion of the eyes, simply because you perceive it takes less space if they make the font size smaller and make it all part of one window structure.

Speaking of Shapeshifter, is there a way to unpack a guikit to extract the wallpapers and cursors? guikitty-11b1 does nothing after it applies the patches and begins to extract.

we are monday and not release :( maybe tonight? or tomorrow?

cheers

http://www.unsanity.net/shapeshifter-21.dmg

Wonder when a new ThemePark release is coming out to match it.

I have tried Shapeshifter 2.1 out for around 24 hrs now, and it all seem to work pretty ok. But.. there's one application that get really screwed up when with SS 2.1 (and the Milk 3.0-theme):
Propellerheads Reason 3.0. The sequencer and loads of buttons are totally gone, transparent, making it impossible to create music.

A fix coming up, maybe? Please? :)

just exclude reason from the shapeShifter pref. pane

Ah.. of course! Thanks for the tip.

I dont know why no one has started a lynch party for Menu Master but I think I am going to take my pitchfork and torch out of the closet soon!

Com'on guys.. get your s%^t together.. I dont know why everyone is so happy when Unsanity tosses a bone out with an annoucement that they finally got one of their products updated to Tiger.. "Is that not what a responsible program maker would do regardless"? It's like we have to feel fortunate that Unsanity and it's partners finally got around to doing or starting what they should have months/weeks ago.

If you want satified customers then prepare your products ahead of time so they can actually be used properly. If it's about money then "charge more" ! I would pay twice what I paid for Menu master to be able to use it right now..

I'd pay for silk again to not have to stare at goddamn lucida grande all friggin' day!!

;)

Thanks for the headstart Damain:

I dont know why no one has started a lynch party for Labels X but I think I am going to take my pitchfork and torch out of the closet soon!

Com'on guys.. get your s%^t together.. I dont know why everyone is so happy when Unsanity tosses a bone out with an annoucement that they finally got one of their products updated to Tiger.. "Is that not what a responsible program maker would do regardless"? It's like we have to feel fortunate that Unsanity and it's partners finally got around to doing or starting what they should have months/weeks ago.

If you want satified customers then prepare your products ahead of time so they can actually be used properly. If it's about money then "charge more" ! I would pay twice what I paid for LabelsX to be able to use it right now..

I agree with C.
It is COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE and not PROFESSIONAL at all to wait for Tiger's release and still say that many of your products are going to be available "soon". I mean what kind of attitude is that for a software maker? If you were a responsible developer you would have played with the betas for over a year, so you could have your updates released in time! Unbelievably moronic and non professional attitude.
Calling yourselfs developers make me lough. And to think I have spent money on your software. NEVER AGAIN.

I am glad that I dont feel alone or in a minority on this issue.. I mean if this was a update from OS9 to OSX I could understand that there is some major transition problems and issues to work out, "hell, I could even understand Jag to Panther" taking a bit of time but Tiger poses no major obstacles that should excuse this delay. I have been reading and listening to allot of programmers and designers before I decided to make a fuss. And it is unanimous that a delay from Panther to Tiger is just a case of "ill planning". So far 90% of all other products/programs that I use were updated on the day or days before the release of Tiger.. So far Unsanity and it's "soon crew" are the only ones slacking and full of excuses.

Honestly, if another company comes out with similar products I will take my money and dedication elsewhere.. Technology is a ever evolving entity and updates will always be a concern. I cant have angst about updating for fear that my programs are in the hands of people that dont have their priorities geared towards customer satisfaction (before) not after there is a complaint made. That is one of the things that separates great businesses from good businesses.

the API's used by a lot of unsanity's products have been COMPLETELY changed by the new core image system in tiger, it is not a simple as some other products tiger updates

And of course all of you assume that Apple was forthcoming with pre release seeds and would bother to assist any developer having problems with Tiger before April 29th. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

Come'on .. here we go again with the excuses for lazyness, If you are telling me that Tiger posed such a major development issue as to cause Unsanity to have to "rethink" their entire program design you gotta be joking.. Or you are part of the "soon crew"? who knows..

I dont buy it.. There are very similiar products (shape shifter aside) that are already updated to Tiger from other designer/programmers. Programs that have similar function to menu master, silk, labels x, font book, etc.

If Apple is soo bad about informing programmers of update information how the hell do all those other companies come up with timely updates? Is there some conspiricy theory you are laying on here that Apple is secretly hiding info from Unsanity ... Please ..

because other companies can afford the $3000 per developer cost to get the pre-release builds and api update whitepapers

and Unsanity is a handful of people spread out all over the world

Andrew, it isn't a matter of cost. The issue is that there were no resources for developers (no matter how much they paid) and developers got the final build of Tiger after consumers did.

It's been a few years since my ADC membership expired, I guess they changed things around some, either way, don't listen to people who try to stress you out with this hurry up attitude, I'm waiting for silk myself, but I know how much the graphical subsystem of 10.4 has changed from 10.3 so i know it's gonna be a while.

if people want to yell and scream about what a bad job unsanity does... they should try it themselves!!

If it's about cost then you should put up a big disclamer on your site that says something like "because we under-value our skills as programmers and we dont know the true value of our products there will be the chance that we will not be able to update our products in reasonable time".

Or... Ooorrrr.. you could ..
Realize and understand the true value of your products and charge the correct amounts.

For example.. Menu Master (the thorn in my ass)
I would pay upwards of $35 -$40 per year to use it.. Even more if the packaging was just fancy enough to hypnotize me into emptying my wallet..

Shape shifter I would pay easy twice what you charge "its a awesome program" You really undercut your skills on the amount you charge to use that..

LabelsX - another awesome program .. You charge $9.00 I would pay more then $25.00 if you asked.

I could go on with every awesome program that you guys make (all of them awsome when usable)
Just to make it simple I would "and I am sure not alone on this" pay twice as much for just about every product you offer and I can say they are worth more then twice the amount..

Dont get me wrong people.. I am a big fan of Unsanity products .. I am not a big fan of not being able to use them.

If it's about money I will give you $50 right now to use Menu master "not kidding" you email me and tell me where to send the money.. You have a email from me in your feedback@unsanity.com email account..

Woah. Many of you are being very rude, here.

Lots of things weren't Tiger compatible upon release. StuffIt Deluxe broke, for example. It took Allume 3 business days to release an update to fix it, and I think StuffIt is more of an integral part of a system than any haxie (although I find it fairly unbearable to live without FruitMenu).

That said, Unsanity was very responsive and posted public betas of FruitMenu on April 25th (4 days before Tiger), and Windowshade X and Xounds the next day. The day before Tiger's release, FontCard, FruitMenu, WindowShade X, Xounds, Application Enhancer, APE SDK, and ClearDock were updated to be compatible, and the business day after, we got Shapeshifter and Mighty Mouse. I wouldn't call updating 9 products in one week being lazy!

Most of you don't seem to even understand the troubles a developer goes through during a major OS upgrade. Beta versions of any OS are *unstable*, so it's harder to find where bugs are occurring. It's even more difficult when your development tools are changing too, and GCC4.0 broke lots of stuff.

Wasting their time by bombarding them with hatemail and ranting about how they're irresponsible and lazy isn't a) going to save them any time or b) inspire them to work faster.

(And perhaps you should have waited to 10.4.1 if you rely so heavily on programs *which you knew at the time were not Tiger compatible* - by then everything would be updated, and the OS wouldn't be as buggy, too.)

hear hear!

Having worked with software developers before (I've beta tested a couple of Ambrosia games), I know exactly how slow the development process can seem to the outside world.

Unsanity, take all the time you need to do it right; I'd rather you take longer to deliver a solid product than rush a haxie out the door because of whiney upgrade freaks. Besides, if you take your time, they'll whine about that, and if you rush it, they'll whine about the shoddy job; you can't win with them, so just do the best job you can.

I love how you guys translate our concern and question of a timely release with apple updates as "rude", "pressure" & "hurry".

I guess if the computer industry catered to the same type of customers that say "ah just take all the time in the world"... We would still be sitting on OS9 ..

WOW Ryan ! I guess that because Unsanity updated some of their products to Tiger I should be surprised and thankful that my money paid is being put to use !!
I am sorry, I think you are confusing
"responsibility" with "eventuality".

You guys just keep eating the bone tossed over the fence by Unsanity.. Sorry but "I" know and many others know that this is "BS" and for a product that I pay for and rely on for business I am not going to expect anything less then "on time updates"..

Damian is a troll, we should all ignore him. If his business is suffering because a haxie he needs isn't working under Tiger then its his own fault for not doing his homework before upgrading (Unsanity does publish a list of haxies which work under Tiger, after all). There are always people who look for excuses to carp and complain, especially when it allows them to blame someone else for their own mistakes.

Don,

May I quote you in future posts that you said
"updating to the most current version of Apple operating software is a mistake".

And dont go starting crap with calling names, I never personally insulted anyone here, never called anyone names, and futhermore always had a ligit arguement. I had one issue that could have been cleared up real quick with a honest answer from Unsanity that I only received via email "last night".

Troll Damian,

You confirm your status as a troll by grossly and deliberately miscontruing my words. It's a mistake to upgrade *any* software on which you depend, be it OS X, Windows, an application, a haxie, whatever, if you haven't first done your homework to see if some critical functionality you need still works the way you need it to work.

BTW, you're wrong about Tiger when you say, "but Tiger poses no major obstacles". There was *major* under-the-hood work done on Tiger (read Siracusa's review at Ars Technica), and for you to claim otherwise shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

As for name-calling, well, if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck. If it rants like a troll, talks about things it doesn't know about like a troll, and insults like a troll then it's probably a troll. Besides, you are in no moral position to make accusations of name calling, having heaved some juicy insults in Unsanity's direction: "ill planning" and "laziness" just to name two that make good, short sound bites.

Finally, you're complaining about just one company when the problem is endemic in the software industry. Go look at Macintouch's list of software that has problems with Tiger. You might try to blame Apple for this situation, but go read Siracusa's review first, especially section 4 where he talks about all the issues Apple has had to deal with trying to mature the OS X kernel. The bottom line is that OS X is still a very young operating system, especially from a developer's standpoint. Apple hasn't had time to solidify all the APIs yet (although Tiger is a great leap forward), and that means major OS releases are going to break some apps. These are the kinds of growing pains one must expect from a young, still-maturing OS. Apple could help the problem a little by giving registered developers better early access, but having people post the stuff on BitTorrent does tend to be a disincentive for that.

So, what's a careful person to do? Easy: wait. Once a major new release ships, the application developers are then able to get copies and update their apps. There's no rule that says one *must* update to the latest OS on the day it ships. Of course, in this age of instant gratification, waiting a couple of weeks is simply out of the question for some people. If they can't do it *right* *now*, they gripe. And when stuff breaks because they didn't do their homework, they gripe again. Life goes on...

Ok, Gruppie

Are you "Unsanity's personal spokes person".?

You are a bit off with you snazzy comments on what has been said on this thread. And you are absolutely correct about the fact that I know nothing personally about programming or making software, this is why I came here to ask some questions. Until Unsanity limits this blog to programming experts only I will assume it's open for anyone of their Customers to post any concerns they like. You are the only person that is talking like they invented the computer and have it all figured out.. Everyone else that has questions, concerns or is irritated by delays "is just Trolls".

First, during previous updates to OS systems, Unsanity was able to deliver timely updates. My question during all of this is why now is it taking so long for this update? Until today no one from Unsanity gave a answer that made much sense "other then quick one liners"

Second, If Tiger is such a big deal then how the hell is so many other companies updating their products before or very shortly after Tigers release?
Even Unsanity had many other programs up to date with Tiger's release, my question was geared towards Menu Master and the ones that were not updated yet if the other Unsanity programs were.

And you are wrong, I am not complaining about one company. I am currently emailing Apple also to find out why they are not informing legit programmers ahead of time to their updates. So I am not just bitching at the end of the line, I am also complaining at the top of the problem FYI.

As for insults, I never said anything insulting to anyone personally. Where as you did.. If a complaint to a company = "Troll" then I assume you are some kind of Monk or hyper pacifist.. Or your ass must be tired from taking all you life over a barrel because you never raise concern or complain about anything.

Any legit paying customer should be able to raise complaints about anything they like. And if you did not notice I also said many good things about Unsanity, I have continuously sent friends, family to purchase their software. But I am voicing a concern that I have as well as many people I know.

As I said before, someone "official" from Unsanity answered my email and cleared everything up with a simple no BS answer. End of story.. I accepted that that is how it was. Now that I got a straight answer I know it's more Apples issue with not being more helpful to programmers. So that is where my complaints will go from this point on.. I did not come here to argue with Unsanity groupies. I came here to see if I could get a answer from someone at Unsanity..

Damian, I understand where you're coming from, but a good deal of the things you've said simply doesn't belong in a public place. If you're unhappy with Unsanity, you should have emailed them *in the first place*, rather than making a stink in this comment thread.

Furthermore, do you realize how much went into this ShapeShifter update alone? Jason had to implement his own LAYO rendering system because Apple's produced many glitches when adapted to the Panther methods of themeing (specifically, he said that things like MenuEnhancer and many app skins were broken).

You also, of course, know that APE specifically modifies certain code in an app with its own, and as such it is very dependent on the internals of Mac OS X, so I personally think that Unsanity did the right thing in releasing APE and a handful of other extremely functional haxies right away and then waiting on Silk and ShapeShifter, which are of course cosmetic and complicated haxies.

I also peered at the Tiger list just now - Menu Master and Labels X are the only other haxies not already mentioned that aren't Tiger-ready yet. I can't answer for Unsanity on Menu Master, but Finder definitely underwent some major changes in Tiger, so I'm positive it'll take some time to trudge through crappy Carbon code to make Labels X work again.

No, I'm not an Unsanity spokesman. I just don't like people shooting off their mouths when they don't know what they're talking about.

OK, you admit this:

>I know nothing personally about programming

If so, then where did you get the insight to say this:

>Tiger poses no major obstacles that should excuse this delay.

in an earlier post? If you know nothing about programming then how can you know that Tiger poses no major obstacles?

>during previous updates to OS systems, Unsanity was able to
>deliver timely updates

There was quite a bit of delay for some of their products when Panther was released. And they have more products to take care of now than they did when, say, Jaguar came out.

>If Tiger is such a big deal then how the hell is so many other
>companies updating their products before or very shortly after
>Tigers release?

Several of Unsanity's products were updated very shortly after Tiger's release. And like I said in my previous post, go look at the page on Macintouch that lists all the software that isn't Tiger-ready. The simple fact is that not every program was affected by the Tiger release, and some of those that were had simple fixes. Unsanity's products by their very nature are going to be highly OS-dependent. They're actually patching what happens inside other applications, for crying out loud. Their products aren't simple, well-behaved apps that follow only the official, documented APIs. They do grungy, undocumented stuff. That makes them fragile with respect to OS upgrades because OS upgrades change the undocumented interfaces they use. Lots of other programs are in the same category. One good example is Retrospect. It took Dantz several days to come out with a patch to make Retrospect work under Tiger, and it will be a few more weeks before it supports Tiger's new file system features (extended file attributes).

>I never said anything insulting to anyone personally.

No, you just called everyone at Unsanity lazy and questioned their collective competence. Don't try to hide behind the fact that you didn't name individual names. When you insult the company, you insult all the developers there.

>Any legit paying customer should be able to raise complaints

I've never said otherwise. But what you've done is far beyond that. You've pontificated about things you don't understand, and insulted people who don't deserve it. What makes you a troll is not that you had a legitimate customer complaint. It's how you chose to voice that complaint. Every one of your posts has been rude, insulting, and based on incorrect assumptions about how things work. Rather than acknowledging to yourself from the beginning that you don't know what's going on (no shame there, you're not a programmer), and phrasing your complaint in a more polite fashion, you chose to start your contribution to this thread with "get your s%^t together," like you had some special insight that their "s%^t" wasn't together. Your very first utterance was combative rather than conciliatory. I'm not saying that you must abase yourself before the gods of programming before submitting your humble request, just that you should be polite about bringing up your concerns. And that you shouldn't pretend to know what's going on when you don't.